From a team perspective, all sacks are positive for a defense, but they can mean very different things for an individual pass-rusher making the play. Depending on a variety of different factors, player evaluation based on raw sack statistics can often be misleading.
First great read, always something I wondered about, but often only here analysts differentiate sack value during draft time.
Sometimes edge-rushers play on the inside, particularly on 3rd down or long yard situations. I.e. Brandon Graham likely does it a couple times a game or 10% or more of his snaps. So does your metric include those pass rushes. And are those pass rushes part of the snaps and snap % tally. Omitting interior sacks but including the play as part of snaps/snaps % creates a variance. Tracking both would be more time consuming as you'd have to track by inside vs outside pass rush for each play vs watching just sacks. Either way it'll would skew the metric based on positional analysis so a note may be required until you start the "interior sack production analysis"
Thank you! If you look at Myles Garrett’s chart in the article you’ll see that he has one from the “3-technique” alignment, so to answer your question yes, all sacks from edge-rushers regardless of alignment are recorded in TSR.
This is a great article. One thing, why use snaps/ sack and not pass rush snaps/ sack. & bigups to Jon Ledyard I fell in love with his work at Steelersdepot
First, thank you! And that's a great question. I would obviously prefer to use pass rush snaps rather than overall snaps but the latter are readily available on sites like Pro Football Reference whereas the former (pass rush snaps) would need to be charted for each pass-rusher, which would involve studying every snap as opposed to only sacks. That would be ideal, but for the sake of time is unrealistic for me at the moment with all of the other work I plan to bring you on here.
Maybe one day though if this metric continues to grow like I think it can. That would certainly crystalize the results and take it to another level!
A possible suggestion , when computing metrics such as most HQ sacks or snaps/HQ sacks RHQ sacks could also be added . For eg : Myles Garrett could have 1 HQ sack every 49.2 snaps and not 55.7 snaps . Similarly joey bosa's HQ sacks metrics do not look as good because 2 of his sacks go into RHQ total
What do you think about Chase Young? I'm a fan of his and the WFT, but he doesn't ever seem to get around the edge when he is 1 v 1...Do you think he will get better?
I think his groin injury may have been holding him back to an extent earlier in the year but at the same time he has definitely been underperforming given expectations. I will have more thoughts on him at some point when I break down individual edge-rushers in more detail though.
This is great. I’ve been wanting someone to make a list like this for a while. Bc watching different edge rushers, you can tell not all sacks are the same. But it’s impossible to put into words. Great analysis
Not at the moment, but I will look into what that would look like on the site. It's obviously a long list with every edge-rusher there, so maybe I could post it in a series of images or something. Thanks for the question.
Also would be cool if we could separate out pass rush snaps vs all snaps, as some guys like TJ Watt spend a significant portion of their plays in coverage
Been a long-time fan of your work, Brandon. This is an exciting and much-needed improvement over current Lineman grading systems from certain platforms that shall not be named haha.
My question: will a similar metric quantifying pressures/QB hits be created as well? Or will it just eventually be implemented to the TSR?
Ideally, I would love to quantify pressures/QB hits but that would also require studying every snap for every rusher, which is too time-consuming for me right now considering all of the other work I have planned for this site. Possibly in the future I could do that though!
Do you have any grading on Ngakoue? Curious as I believe most of his sacks in 2020 have been LQ.
Actually am working on Week 11 now so have it up. I have Ngakoue with 1 HQ (vs Lewan), 2 LQ, and 1 coverage.
Also, this is amazing. I know you have a lot on your plate and to put this together in general is awesome! Your work has been top notch since day 1.
Really appreciate it man!
First great read, always something I wondered about, but often only here analysts differentiate sack value during draft time.
Sometimes edge-rushers play on the inside, particularly on 3rd down or long yard situations. I.e. Brandon Graham likely does it a couple times a game or 10% or more of his snaps. So does your metric include those pass rushes. And are those pass rushes part of the snaps and snap % tally. Omitting interior sacks but including the play as part of snaps/snaps % creates a variance. Tracking both would be more time consuming as you'd have to track by inside vs outside pass rush for each play vs watching just sacks. Either way it'll would skew the metric based on positional analysis so a note may be required until you start the "interior sack production analysis"
Regardless, again, great job!
Thank you! If you look at Myles Garrett’s chart in the article you’ll see that he has one from the “3-technique” alignment, so to answer your question yes, all sacks from edge-rushers regardless of alignment are recorded in TSR.
This is a great article. One thing, why use snaps/ sack and not pass rush snaps/ sack. & bigups to Jon Ledyard I fell in love with his work at Steelersdepot
First, thank you! And that's a great question. I would obviously prefer to use pass rush snaps rather than overall snaps but the latter are readily available on sites like Pro Football Reference whereas the former (pass rush snaps) would need to be charted for each pass-rusher, which would involve studying every snap as opposed to only sacks. That would be ideal, but for the sake of time is unrealistic for me at the moment with all of the other work I plan to bring you on here.
Maybe one day though if this metric continues to grow like I think it can. That would certainly crystalize the results and take it to another level!
A possible suggestion , when computing metrics such as most HQ sacks or snaps/HQ sacks RHQ sacks could also be added . For eg : Myles Garrett could have 1 HQ sack every 49.2 snaps and not 55.7 snaps . Similarly joey bosa's HQ sacks metrics do not look as good because 2 of his sacks go into RHQ total
BTW love your work, and the effort you give in your analysis.
The RHQ sacks are already included into the snaps/HQ sacks.
What do you think about Chase Young? I'm a fan of his and the WFT, but he doesn't ever seem to get around the edge when he is 1 v 1...Do you think he will get better?
I think his groin injury may have been holding him back to an extent earlier in the year but at the same time he has definitely been underperforming given expectations. I will have more thoughts on him at some point when I break down individual edge-rushers in more detail though.
This is great. I’ve been wanting someone to make a list like this for a while. Bc watching different edge rushers, you can tell not all sacks are the same. But it’s impossible to put into words. Great analysis
Thanks, Nick. Very glad that you value the idea behind this. Hopefully you'll get a lot out of it as it progresses too.
Why is a strip sack scored so low, it seems to be a greater value to the team, and very well may employ all the skill of an HQ sack?
is there a way to view the full list of sack scores? great article btw!
Not at the moment, but I will look into what that would look like on the site. It's obviously a long list with every edge-rusher there, so maybe I could post it in a series of images or something. Thanks for the question.
Are you sure your formulas are correct? It looks like it is count RHQ as 0.25 instead of 1.25
Yep, double-checked them and RHQs are being counted as 1.25. Did you have a specific player that made you question it?
Also would be cool if we could separate out pass rush snaps vs all snaps, as some guys like TJ Watt spend a significant portion of their plays in coverage
Been a long-time fan of your work, Brandon. This is an exciting and much-needed improvement over current Lineman grading systems from certain platforms that shall not be named haha.
My question: will a similar metric quantifying pressures/QB hits be created as well? Or will it just eventually be implemented to the TSR?
Ideally, I would love to quantify pressures/QB hits but that would also require studying every snap for every rusher, which is too time-consuming for me right now considering all of the other work I have planned for this site. Possibly in the future I could do that though!
This information is amazing. I always try to look at 1 on 1 wins but who your opponent is matters. Thanks for this!
Thank you! I always look at level of competition so factoring that into this formula was an absolute must. Happy you appreciate that part of it too!